Curse

h9dlb · Dec 07, 2007, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Ok guys - nothing amazing about this build but so far it has not let me down. I can easily run round high end levels with H/H without any problems from mobs in Nightfall, and not too bad in Gwen.

If anyone has any comments for improvements then I would be happy to hear form you.

[wiki]Whirlwind Attack[/wiki] Use Adrenaline

[skill=text]Gash[/skill] Use Adrenaline
[card]Gash[/card]

[skill=text]Final Thrust[/skill] Use Adrenaline
[card]Final Thrust[/card]

[skill=text]Hundred Blades[/skill] Use Energy Gain Adrenaline
[card]Hundred Blades[/card]

[wiki]Soldiers Strike[/wiki] Use Energy Gain Adrenaline

[skill=text]Pure Strike[/skill] Use Energy Gain Adrenaline
[card]Pure Strike[/card]

[skill=text]Healing Signet[/skill] Healing
[card]Healing Signet[/card]

[wiki]For Great Justice Shout[/wiki] - Gain Adrenaline

Sword [wiki]Wahli's Blade[/wiki]
Shield [wiki]Keht's Aegis[/wiki]

Swordsmanship +1 +1
1 rune of major vigor & 2 runes of vitae & 1 rune of attunement
2 Survivor insignias & 1 Radiant + any 2 others

14 Swordsmanship, 12 Tactics, 3 Strength

626 health, 23 energy

For H/H I use Zhed (Fire ele 1 + 3), Master of Whispers (MM +1 +3) & Gwen (Dom Mesmer 1+1)

A Leprechaun · Dec 07, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

You dont have anything to cause bleed to trigger Gash's Deep wound, this is bad. 3 energy attacks, imo, is too much and you will eat through energy. Other than that its ok, mabye try an IAS like flail or drunken master to add damage and adrenaline gain.
But you really, really need something to cause bleeding, Crippling Slash or Sever Artery.

Something like:
[skill]Sever Artery[/skill]
[skill]Gash[/skill]
***Whirlwind Attack***
[skill]Final Thrust[/skill]
[skill]Hundred Blades[/skill]
[skill]Flail[/skill]
[skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill]
[skill]Healing Signet[/skill]

But you can run whatever you want as long as it works...ok....ish. This is just a tweaked version of yours to get a bit more out of it.

~A Leprechaun~

Krazax · Dec 07, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

- [skill]sever artery[/skill] + [skill]Barbarous Slice[/skill]

He's got 3 str dude, flail only gonna last 7 secs. He can slip a barbarous in no problem with that.

Additionally:

- [skill]final thrust[/skill] + [skill]Sun and Moon slash[/skill]

Edit: OK it's for PvE?

Well then, I agree with Leprechaun above except on one point. Loose Final thrust and take Sun and Moon Slash. That way you still have an unblockable attack, that also gives you adren, and you don't have an adren killer in your build, which is counterproductive.

A Leprechaun · Dec 07, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Considering he talks about high-end areas and H/H I guess he means PvE, and flail at 4adrenaline can be charged in well less than 7 seconds.

~A Leprechaun~

Krazax · Dec 07, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

Considering he talks about high-end areas and H/H I guess he means PvE, and flail at 4adrenaline can be charged in well less than 7 seconds.

~A Leprechaun~

True. Very true. Honestly, I'm not even sure he needs an IAS with this kinda build. He's doing 100 Blades splash dmg with a deep wound combo. Might be better off with an interrupt in there.

A Leprechaun · Dec 07, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

No, an IAS goes with any build, other than running another stance, there is no good reason not to run one.

~A Leprechaun~

Krazax · Dec 07, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

No, an IAS goes with any build, other than running another stance, there is no good reason not to run one.

~A Leprechaun~

You really believe that? That's a pretty bold statement man. Pardon me while I completely refute it.

Obsidian tanks don't need an IAS.
Other heavy defense tank builds don't need an IAS.
Running builds don't need an IAS.
Builds using 1/2 sec and 1 sec skill activation skills don't need an IAS.

Case in point:
[skill]"For great justice!"[/skill] + [skill]Enraging Charge[/skill] + [skill]eviscerate[/skill] + [skill]agonizing chop[/skill] + [skill]critical chop[/skill]
Does not need an IAS. Pre-nerf, this actually was better then Evi+Exe+IAS

An IAS does didly for shouts or signet heavy builds.

Sometimes an IAS doesn't increase your DPS that much, or your adrenaline gain. Sometimes, it's downright inferior to what is setup in a build and what you are fighting against. I'm talking damage builds in particular here.

For example, fighting mobs that are spamming:
[skill]wild throw[/skill] or [skill]wild blow[/skill]

I was farming the cripple shield in NF with a 100 blades conjure build, and those dumb monkeys spam WT. There's no point to having any stance here, let alone an IAS. Second you put it up, blam, it's removed. You waist more adren/energy putting it back up then you do if you just pump out your attack skills normally.

When I used to farm Ettins for runes with 100 Blades or cyclone/triple builds, again I didn't need an IAS. Just an elemental mod.

When I farm in HM I don't need or want an IAS. For example.

Still think there is no good reason to never have an IAS?

Stormlord Alex · Dec 07, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

Honestly, I'm not even sure he needs an IAS with this kinda build.

Every non-gimmick warrior should bring an IAS.

33% IAS is equivalent to 50% more hits - 50% more base damage and 50% more adrenaline gain.
Given the base power of a warrior, there's almost no skills out there that can add as much strength to a build as Flail/Frenzy. Show me one skill that would do more for him than Flail, and I'll concede.

h9dlb · Dec 07, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

By the way guys it is for PvE. I dont have factions, and I haven't got very far in Prophecies (Lev 8) I play mainly nightfall & Gwen so I'm limited to those skills

MBP · Dec 07, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

well since you got nightfall I recommend going [skill]crippling slash[/skill] over hundred blades..it'll trigger your gash's deep wound.

If you're worried about adrenalin gain..do as Lep said... add [skill]flail[/skill]...pair that with [skill]enraging charge[/skill] and you have a very effective and popular adren building combo.
In pve I prefer lion's comfort for a heal...if you go with that over signet I suggest taking tactics down some and upping strength some..increasing your strength will lengthen your ias too.
You can keep whirlwind in there if you want but if you're in a h/h group most of the time odds are the ele's are taking care of aoe...I'd run a skill with some more utility like [skill]wild blow[/skill]

So the build I would run would be like this

[skill]crippling slash[/skill][skill]gash[/skill][skill]final thrust[/skill][skill]Wild Blow[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]"for great justice!"[/skill][skill]lion's comfort[/skill]

Some people like taking no self-heal and relying on their healers but I prefer to take one just in-case.

As for the IAS not needed comment...It may be true for your minotaur gimmick farm where you don't seem to be using too much adrenaline..but for the most part any good warrior would be taking some form of IAS.

Krazax · Dec 08, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Every non-gimmick warrior should bring an IAS.

33% IAS is equivalent to 50% more hits - 50% more base damage and 50% more adrenaline gain.
Given the base power of a warrior, there's almost no skills out there that can add as much strength to a build as Flail/Frenzy. Show me one skill that would do more for him than Flail, and I'll concede.

[skill]"For great justice!"[/skill]

With Flail you get 1 adren every second on auto attacks after the first 5.32 secs, cuz you need 4 adren to start it, and then have to wait 1 sec while you hit again. With FGJ and and normal attack speed you get 2 every 1.33 secs starting at 1.33 secs.

Code:

Time     IAS Adren     FGJ Adren
1          -               -
1.33       -               2
2          -               -
2.66       -               4
3          -               -
3.99       -               6
4          -               -
5          1               -
5.32       -               8
6          2               -
6.65       -               10
7          3
8          4
9          5
10         6
11         7
12         8
13         9
14        10

Since he can hit his adrenaline attack skills faster, he does more dps. In less then 7 seconds, a FGJ user is ready to unload the highest adren req attack skill, which means his full adren combo, compared to the flail user. And this is just with auto attacks, not even counting multiple attack skills that just make it worse.

There's your 1v1 comparison.

If we get into pairing things up, it just gets worse man. I can already make 10 adren happen in 1.33 secs without an IAS using 2 skills. I can do it in 1/2 sec if I have 3 skills. Show me an IAS paired with 1 other skill that can get that much adren that quickly. Then I'll concede.

An IAS can increase a spike, but in some instances, the difference is marginal as well. Bottom line is this, if the OP is using an offensive warrior build in PvE, then yeah, in most cases an IAS should be brought. My earlier post was to refute the claim that there should always be an IAS in a warrior bar no matter what, which clearly isn't true, as well as give specific cases where it blatantly is pointless to have one.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 08, 2007, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

[skill]"For great justice!"[/skill]
yada-yada-yada

So, a 100% adrenaline buff with ~50% coverage is better than 100% coverage, 50% straight damage boost and 50% adrenaline boost?

Think harder.

iridescentfyre · Dec 08, 2007, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

Obsidian tanks don't need an IAS.
Other heavy defense tank builds don't need an IAS.

No you're right, they don't.. but for the same reasons they don't need an IAS, tanking builds are bad and need to die. Tanking builds were obsolete two years ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

Running builds don't need an IAS.

Uh, neither do monks or mesmers... that doesn't mean its a relevant point to make when talking about offense-oriented warrior builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

Builds using 1/2 sec and 1 sec skill activation skills don't need an IAS.

Yeah dude, they do. The meager choice of fixed activation time warrior attacks do not make up for the lack of an IAS.

Furthermore,
[skill]Eviscerate[/skill][skill]Executioner's Strike[/skill][skill]Agonizing Chop[/skill][skill]Frenzy[/skill]
is way better than the example you posted.

Krazax · Dec 08, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

So, a 100% adrenaline buff with ~50% coverage is better than 100% coverage, 50% straight damage boost and 50% adrenaline boost?

Think harder.

Alright Smarty,

Who's doing more dmg:
Person A hitting 1 sec with an auto attack
or
Person B doing an attack skill every 1.33 secs while Person A is still charging their adrens?

Ya know, it's not rocket surgery. Read harder. I showed you a skill that acquires adren faster, and as a result, allows faster unloading of dps in the scope of battle time. I like flail. In fact, I use it a lot, but I don't use it in every single PvE situation. I don't attach my playing success to how quickly my character swings his weapon, but rather how quickly I can fire, and re-fire my skills. You asked for a 1 vs 1 comparison with flail on what worked better. I showed it clear as day to you. You wanted it, you got it. Don't like it? Tuff nuts thems the breaks.

If you're running a CA + WW + TC + WW + CA + WW build/combo (the most damag producing all warrior skill aoe combo), what's more useful? A frigging IAS that just makes you wait since it doesn't speed up CA or TC or even 100x's recharge, or FGJ that maximizes each time you use your skill allowing each Energy attack to be followed with an adren. Go ahead, don't bring FGJ and bring your IAS with this build. I am certain with this PvE build I will out dps you, because no simple IAS is gonna insure your CA and TC have enough adren to fire WW like FGJ can.

So Woopie Freaking Doo, you swung faster, now you can swing some more to charge whirlwind. GOod job! You !win.

Ps. If your group is taking longer then 20 secs to kill the average a cluster, your group has other problems to worry about. (Actually this makes perfect sense if you are using IAS's to build adren.) FGJ is 100% coverage on everything but bosses and other extended battles if you know how to kill a cluster quickly. I don't spend 90% of my time killing bosses in this game when I play, nor does anyone. 90% of the time you are killing trash. Sounds like learning how to kill a cluster in 20 secs is your prob, not the supposed ineffectiveness of FGJ compared to Flail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

Furthermore,
[skill]Eviscerate[/skill][skill]Executioner's Strike[/skill][skill]Agonizing Chop[/skill][skill]Frenzy[/skill]
is way better than the example you posted.

I don't think so. At 8 seconds, the time you can now unload your combo, I will have already unloaded mine 4 seconds before you. Not to mention my combo would have done insane dmg against you with Frenzy up. You'd probably be dead before you even finished charging up.

Btw, why in gods name would you use Frenzy to charge adren? That's not what it's for. It's for spike execution. So your combo there is going to take longer than 8 seconds to charge. Nice knowing you.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 08, 2007, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

Alright Smarty,

Who's doing more dmg:
Person A hitting 1 sec with an auto attack
or
Person B doing an attack skill every 1.33 secs while Person A is still charging their adrens?

Get your facts right before you look like a fool.
The person under IAS is swinging every 0.89 seconds.

Flail > FGJ! if you can only have one skill.

Dr Strangelove · Dec 08, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

Alright Smarty,

Who's doing more dmg:
Person A hitting 1 sec with an auto attack
or
Person B doing an attack skill every 1.33 secs while Person A is still charging their adrens?

Person A, who's doing 50% more damage will do more.

The ONLY build I can think of that doesn't need IAS is

[skill]mystic sweep[/skill][skill]eremite's attack[/skill][skill]protector's strike[/skill][skill]hammer bash[/skill][skill]crushing blow[/skill][skill]lion's comfort[/skill][skill]warrior's endurance[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Every standard warrior build needs an IAS. No question.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 08, 2007, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

The ONLY build I can think of that doesn't need IAS is

There's also SS/Fear Me! spammers.
But that's lame gimmicky crap, so I try to ignore it

Dr Strangelove · Dec 08, 2007, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

There's also SS/Fear Me! spammers.
But that's lame gimmicky crap, so I try to ignore it

Crap. Call me Dr. Strangefail. Still, one of those builds is faking an IAS, and the other has a ludicrously overpowered elite fueling spam of very nasty attacks. Please note that any attacks you might be pairing with FGJ and no IAS are not particulary nasty.

blue.rellik · Dec 08, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

There's also SS/Fear Me! spammers.
But that's lame gimmicky crap, so I try to ignore it

But it owns so much in RA when the stupid players all gang up letting me spam Fear Me! nearly every hit!

Crom The Pale · Dec 08, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Personally an IAS will always increase your damage and improve pretty much any build, however that doesnt make it manditory. If your in PvE and destroying mobs in 20sec without and 16sec with, well its just a time saver nothing more.

And then the counter could also be said that when using flail, if your cancel stance is not charges your stuck inthe mud so to speak leaving you ineffective against moving foes.

In the end you are better with it, but can always play without if you prefer some other skill in its place. For example a Shock + Conjure Air war might not wish to use an IAS simply because he is pinning his foe to the ground giving himself time to use an extra attack skill rather than 2 normal attacks.